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    sonicbomb.com :: View topic - THE MYSTERY AROUND CHINA'S NUCLEAR ARSENAL

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    Post new topic Reply to topic  sonicbomb.com Forum Index » China's Nuclear Weapons Program
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    segregator236
    Sunset (1 mt)


    Joined: Jun 24, 2007
    Posts: 104
    Location: Burnaby, BC, Canada

    PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:57 pm Reply with quote

    With China's first nuclear test in 1962, the government decided to let no secret leak out concerning China's nuclear arsenal. The Chinese government established the "no-first-use" rule, and said no more. China is believed to have the smallest arsenal in the 5 nuclear nations. However, some statisticians stated that China has somewhere between 2,000-4,000 thermo-nuclear warheads, up to 3-4 megatons each. Yet, optimists claim that China has only 80 warheads. I personally believe, according to the number of missile boosters and nuclear deployment systems developed, China has AT LEAST 360 nuclear weapons, warheads and bombs included. China stated, "China undertakes not to use or threaten to use nuclear weapons against non-nuclear-weapon states or nuclear-weapon-free zones at any time or under any circumstances." I was surprised when I read that China stated such a thing, because the Communist Chinese Government is VERY rough, firm, and straightforward. And since China worked VERY hard to develop the atomic bomb, I think they must be very excited, therefore is prone to build more.
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    Blake
    Tewa (5 mt)


    Joined: Jun 25, 2007
    Posts: 680
    Location: Florida

    PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 12:40 am Reply with quote

    segregator236 wrote:
    I was surprised when I read that China stated such a thing, because the Communist Chinese Government is VERY rough, firm, and straightforward. And since China worked VERY hard to develop the atomic bomb, I think they must be very excited, therefore is prone to build more.


    Laughing Laughing Laughing

    They stole everything they have didn't they?

    This looks credible.
    http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/1999_cr/h990415-prc-spy.htm


    Last edited by Blake on Wed Sep 26, 2007 2:11 am; edited 1 time in total
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    segregator236
    Sunset (1 mt)


    Joined: Jun 24, 2007
    Posts: 104
    Location: Burnaby, BC, Canada

    PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 12:43 am Reply with quote

    Very Happy Hey, who can blame you? The US is accusing China of copying the nuclear-warhead design. In fact, they DO look exactly the same! Very Happy
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    altair7
    Cherokee (3.8 mt)


    Joined: Aug 10, 2007
    Posts: 430
    Location: Monte Bello Islands

    PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:15 pm Reply with quote

    Not that I have anything against you or Chinese... but they had copied some warhead designs from both the U.S. and the USSR.
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    segregator236
    Sunset (1 mt)


    Joined: Jun 24, 2007
    Posts: 104
    Location: Burnaby, BC, Canada

    PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 5:03 am Reply with quote

    Nuclear warhead interior designs are VERY similar, so you can't really say it's a "copy".
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    gerboisebleue
    Cherokee (3.8 mt)


    Joined: Nov 27, 2007
    Posts: 287
    Location: France

    PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 9:03 am Reply with quote

    segregator236 wrote:
    With China's first nuclear test in 1962, the government decided to let no secret leak out concerning China's nuclear arsenal.


    Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad
    dramatic mistake or error !
    the first chinese atomic test were conducted in october 1964 !

    Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad
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    segregator236
    Sunset (1 mt)


    Joined: Jun 24, 2007
    Posts: 104
    Location: Burnaby, BC, Canada

    PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 2:45 am Reply with quote

    Ok. My mistake noted.

    Mad
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    altair7
    Cherokee (3.8 mt)


    Joined: Aug 10, 2007
    Posts: 430
    Location: Monte Bello Islands

    PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 3:24 am Reply with quote

    It could have been in 1959 when Russia was supposed to supply China with a prototype bomb. Smile
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    segregator236
    Sunset (1 mt)


    Joined: Jun 24, 2007
    Posts: 104
    Location: Burnaby, BC, Canada

    PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 10:07 pm Reply with quote

    Russia didn't export any bombs to China. It was the Chinese who built their own bombs. But the US did give nuclear bombs to Israel.
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    Graviton
    Yankee (13.5 mt)


    Joined: Sep 03, 2006
    Posts: 1548
    Location: USA

    PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:40 pm Reply with quote

    segregator236 wrote:
    Russia didn't export any bombs to China. It was the Chinese who built their own bombs. But the US did give nuclear bombs to Israel.


    This is in error, Segregator, since this was only an assumption made by journalists that never was verified. Assumptions do not make reality.

    Among the great, false rumors of the world about nuclear weapons was that the CIA gave the bomb to the Israelis. Research shows this is not true. It was actually France that provided the key details the Israelis needed.

    http://www.rense.com/general24/bmb.htm

    Here is a pioneering book highlighting the details of Israel getting the bomb (with now-statesman Simon Peres as director) under Project Dimona. Not even USA intelligence detected the project:

    Israel And The Bomb

    By Avner Cohen

    A Choice Outstanding Academic Book

    http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/israel/

    Quote:
    Cohen focuses on a two-decade period from about 1950 until 1970, during which David Ben-Gurionīs vision of making Israel a nuclear-weapon state was realized. He weaves together the story of the formative years of Israelīs nuclear program, from the founding of the Israeli Atomic Energy Commission in 1952, to the alliance with France that gave Israel the sophisticated technology it needed, to the failure of American intelligence to identify the Dimona Project for what it was, to the negotiations between President Nixon and Prime Minister Meir that led to the current policy of secrecy. Cohen also analyzes the complex reasons Israel concealed its nuclear program -from concerns over Arab reaction and the negative effect of the debate at home to consideration of Americaīs commitment to nonproliferation.


    Prime Minister Ben-Gurion proposed a nuclear weapons for Israel since shortly after its formation, and required over 17 years of work to come up with their own bomb. Nuclear weapons are only technology, not a secret handed down from God for one nation to protect.

    The top scientist in the Chinese nuclear program actually was among the scientists with the American nuclear weapons program of Manhatten. The 1946 Atomic Energy Act then banned all foreign scientists from participating, sending the fission technology out around the world, despite the fact that there was already massive espionage. The bets it did was to delay the growing interest in thermonuclear weapons even more.

    Again, let's try to be realistic here. Nuclear weapons technology is just technology, not the almighty, supernatural secret of just one great nation starting it all, never to be figured out in the future by others.
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    segregator236
    Sunset (1 mt)


    Joined: Jun 24, 2007
    Posts: 104
    Location: Burnaby, BC, Canada

    PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 12:14 am Reply with quote

    Buddy, if everything's is assumed, then you can't say that it is certaing that the Russians have the Chinese a bomb.

    And from the documentaries, books, and texts that I have read, I say that it is the Chinese who built their own bomb.
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    Graviton
    Yankee (13.5 mt)


    Joined: Sep 03, 2006
    Posts: 1548
    Location: USA

    PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:44 am Reply with quote

    segregator236 wrote:
    Buddy, if everything's is assumed, then you can't say that it is certaing that the Russians have the Chinese a bomb.

    And from the documentaries, books, and texts that I have read, I say that it is the Chinese who built their own bomb.


    Yes, they built it, but the Chinese also had considerable help from other places. Also, the Chinese had considerable nuclear technology from the Russians, including training in nuclear energy science and engineering. Nuclear technology easily spins off between weapons and atomic power -- have you noticed that almost every advanced nuclear power nation has or had a nuclear weapons program, or was/is allied to a nation who does? Part of the souring between Mao and Krushchev came from the Chinese inability to pay for Russian assistance in nuclear technology in the early 1960s. Some of the top people of China got information from areas while working in the Manhatten Project.

    As MUCH as I don't like the FAS, here is an article showing the Russian-Chinese cooperation in nuclear science that directly contributed to the Chinese bomb program:

    http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/china/nuke/index.html

    The important fact is that technology leaps ahead with spinoff technologies that often can be applied both to civilian and military purposes.

    So did the Chinese do it all alone? The simple answer is no. In fact, no nation has done it alone so far. Even South Africa had help from Israel.
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    segregator236
    Sunset (1 mt)


    Joined: Jun 24, 2007
    Posts: 104
    Location: Burnaby, BC, Canada

    PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 5:24 am Reply with quote

    Yes, I agree to the fact that the Soviets did help the Chinese quite a bit. But in the end at the Sino-Soviet Split, the Russians stopped their assisstance in China, so China went on their own to build their weapon. The date which the Soviets stopped helping China is the name of the first Chinese atomic bomb (the "596")
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    Graviton
    Yankee (13.5 mt)


    Joined: Sep 03, 2006
    Posts: 1548
    Location: USA

    PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 3:16 pm Reply with quote

    segregator236 wrote:
    Yes, I agree to the fact that the Soviets did help the Chinese quite a bit. But in the end at the Sino-Soviet Split, the Russians stopped their assisstance in China, so China went on their own to build their weapon. The date which the Soviets stopped helping China is the name of the first Chinese atomic bomb (the "596")


    Yet by then they had nearly all the information to build it.

    The split came for 2 reasons: growing differences between the philosophy of Mao versus Krushchev (in agricultural versus industrial economies), and the growing, huge inability of Mao to pay for Russian assistance.

    The biggest delay in a weapons program is to provide for bomb fuel enrichment, yet even Russian provided those centrifuges.
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    segregator236
    Sunset (1 mt)


    Joined: Jun 24, 2007
    Posts: 104
    Location: Burnaby, BC, Canada

    PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 2:12 am Reply with quote

    Wait - I thought that the Soviets traded technology with China for uranium. This says that the Chinese did, in fact, make their own fuel.
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